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Item price group

  • 1.  Item price group

    GOLD CONTRIBUTOR
    Posted Jul 08, 2020 04:26 AM
    Hello,

    I'm working on trade agreement and really miss something like a "item price group".

    We can group items regarding line discount, but not regarding prices...

    I would love too though, because we have many items with the same price, and it would be great not to have to set a trade agreement for each.

    I feel like raising this as an "Idea" to Microsoft, but I'd like to be sure I'm not missing something major here...

    Thank you by advance for your feedbacks!


    Regards,

    ------------------------------
    Alexandra Cadet
    Camfil
    ------------------------------


  • 2.  RE: Item price group

    GOLD CONTRIBUTOR
    Posted Jul 14, 2020 04:37 PM
    Hi Alexandra,
    We had this need in AX R/3 2012, so we have a customization for it.  As we are looking to move to D365, we are grappling with each customization.  This one appears to again be a gap.  This customization in D365 is hard to justify because, as you said, you can just create more trade agreement journal lines to get around the lack of a grouping option for price trade agreements.  And data management in D365 is easier than it was in AX.   So, we will probably have to do without.   I don't recall searching the Ideas page on this, but if there is an entry I will vote for it!

    Our customization for Item Price Group in AX went hand in hand with a customization to allow a different unit of measure (UOM) to be on the trade agreement than is used on the sales order line.   These two things together gave us the capability to price certain kinds of items by the Sq Ft or M2 that are sold by the EACH.  This greatly cut down on the number of trade agreements required in our AX solution.
    (The second customization I mention also solved the issue that we had EDI orders coming in with UOM such as Case or Pallet, but we had the trade agreement in EA.  The customer wouldn't get their special price!   Without it, we will have to maintain multiple trade agreements with different UOM, predicting what UOM the EDI customers might want to use.  Or do a UOM conversion in the EDI mapping.)

    ------------------------------
    Lynn Kinsman
    Senior Systems Analyst, AX 2012 and D365 F&O
    Kodak Alaris Inc.
    Rochester NY
    ------------------------------



  • 3.  RE: Item price group

    GOLD CONTRIBUTOR
    Posted Jul 16, 2020 10:37 AM
    Hello Lynn,

    Many thanks for your answer, feel good to be understood!

    I've logged the idea at Microsoft.

    Please vote!

    https://experience.dynamics.com/ideas/idea/?ideaid=a0caa116-70c7-ea11-bf22-0003ff68c5af

    You may enrich my post with your needs regarding UOM :)

    ------------------------------
    Alexandra Cadet
    Camfil
    ------------------------------



  • 4.  RE: Item price group

    TOP CONTRIBUTOR
    Posted Jul 20, 2020 01:45 AM
    What types of items you have that have the same price, always?

    Is that essentially the same item but in different colors/sizes/pattern/style etc.?

    I think in such situation some users resort to using a single product ID (and hence one trade agreement line), and creating product variants - in order to keep the different items separately in inventory.

    Could that work in your case?

    ------------------------------
    Zvika Rimalt
    Functional Consultant
    Vancouver BC
    ------------------------------



  • 5.  RE: Item price group

    GOLD CONTRIBUTOR
    Posted Jul 20, 2020 07:45 AM
    Hello Svika,

    Good point, most of the items sharing the same price are variants.

    But we don't use variants in my company (I've been told it's not compliant with E-Con, the ISV product configurator we're using).

    Regards,

    ------------------------------
    Alexandra Cadet
    Camfil
    ------------------------------



  • 6.  RE: Item price group

    TOP CONTRIBUTOR
    Posted Jul 20, 2020 02:49 PM
    You may see more success pushing your ISV to support variants, than to get Microsoft to change how trade agreements work.
    You might have more leverage with an ISV than with Microsoft R&D....

    After all, Microsoft "supports" your business case, they just do that in a way that is not compatible with the way your company has chosen to use the system...

    ------------------------------
    Zvika Rimalt
    Functional Consultant
    Vancouver BC
    ------------------------------



  • 7.  RE: Item price group

    GOLD CONTRIBUTOR
    Posted Jan 26, 2021 03:30 PM
    Our products are photographic papers that all have the same trade agreement price per square foot.  The paper is sold under many SKU's for different cuts (8:10, 5X7, etc) and number of sheets per pack.  I don't think the business has ever considered using variants to link these products together.   Today they all appear as separate SKUs in the catalog.   How do trade agreements work with variants of a product id?  Can you set the trade agreement for the product id by the square foot and then sell the different packs of paper (variants) by the Each and have the trade agreement 1) be recognized as applicable and 2) do the calculations correctly to convert the UOM?

    ------------------------------
    Lynn Kinsman
    Senior Systems Analyst, AX 2012 and D365 F&O
    Kodak Alaris Inc.
    Rochester NY
    ------------------------------



  • 8.  RE: Item price group

    GOLD CONTRIBUTOR
    Posted Feb 03, 2021 12:47 PM
    Hello Lynn,

    I don't know variants very well so you should cross check and experiment. That being said, here are some thoughts.

    One benefit of variants is that you can set the price on the item and it applies to all its variants. And you still have the option to set a price on a specific variant.
    So you should be able to use an item to group all with the same price (same square footage) and use variants to indicate the different set of dimensions.

    But it wouldn't work in the way you describe regarding unit conversion, I don't think so.

    It looks like there is not standard functionality that would convert a price in meter into a price in cm automatically, for instance.  Although this should be optional, I guess it could be smart in your case (and I'm sure in others) to have a price conversion tied to the unit conversion.

    Another idea for Microsoft maybe?



    ------------------------------
    Alexandra Cadet
    Camfil
    ------------------------------



  • 9.  RE: Item price group

    TOP CONTRIBUTOR
    Posted Feb 04, 2021 11:49 AM
    I personally don't like using variants unless there is a strong case for them - as they bring a lot of complexity to all areas of AX.

    That said, you may be able to solve this another way.
    If you create one item price group, you should be able to tie a single trade agreement to all the items using the smallest unit of measure - for instance square inch, or square centimeter.
    On your saleslines, you'll have also have a unit of measure - typically the selling unit of measure from the Item master. That would normally match up to the trade agreement unit of measure, thus allowing the price to be discovered.
    You would also want to setup, on each item, an item specific UOM conversion between EA and square inch.

    Your remaining issue, then, is to be able to enter a quantity of ea for a particular item - without affecting the selling unit of measure.
    This can be handled by a simple mod to create an "edit method" on the salesline. You could call it "Qty in EA". It would simply display your normal sales qty converted into EA - and since it's an edit method, not a display method, you would actually be able to enter a value into it, have it convert that quantity into the sales UOM, and set the sales qty.




    ------------------------------
    Tony Zeigler
    Senior Consultant
    Strategic Solutions NW
    Beaverton OR
    ------------------------------



  • 10.  RE: Item price group

    GOLD CONTRIBUTOR
    Posted Feb 09, 2021 09:08 AM
    Thank you Alexandra and Tony for your inputs.  Tony, I am not following your logic.  There is no out-of-the-box concept of an 'Item Price Group' in D365 for use on trade agreement, which is precisely the gap we have filled with a customization in AX.
    The other part of your suggestion is that the sales unit of measure be the same as the UOM on the trade agreement so that it will be discovered.   Many of our orders come in via portal or EDI, and the customer is going to order these products by the EACH (pack of paper of a certain size), as they are listed in our catalog, not by the centimeter or square inch.   So EA is the UOM that is going to be on the sales order line, not the smaller UOM that is on the trade agreement.  In AX they had to match perfectly in order for the trade agreement to be recognized, which was the gap we filled with another customization.

    Thanks for the warning on using Variants.  I had a feeling they'd make life difficult in the way that financial dimensions do (too many tables under the covers, not visible on most grids, hard to translate the dimension number into the equivalent combination of fin dims together.)  I suspect inventory dimensions like variants would have similar challenges for reporting, visibility, sorting, etc.

    Thanks again for the engagement on this topic!

    ------------------------------
    Lynn Kinsman
    Senior Systems Analyst, AX 2012 and D365 F&O
    Kodak Alaris Inc.
    Rochester NY
    ------------------------------



  • 11.  RE: Item price group

    TOP CONTRIBUTOR
    Posted Feb 09, 2021 11:06 AM
    Lynn,

    You are correct, there is no price group on the items, only discounts. I had been looking at a trade agreement journal and assumed there was one because it had the table/group/all dropdown :/

    Given that issue, and that you have EDI & Portal activity - and likely links back to the published Catalog - You might actually want to look at the issue from a different window...

    The best out of the box behavior for most of your functionality is to maintain trade agreements for each item using an EA unit of measure.
    If we want to do the least harm to the core of the system, we should probably be looking at mods that help users maintain the trade agreements the system needs. Perhaps a menu option in a trade agreement journal that can take a price per sqft, then populate the journal with a line for each item in the EA uom, but calculating the price by looking at that item's UOM conversion.

    The user could then review the journal, and post it.

    I always worry about mods that alter core functionality, such as the pricing engine.

    ------------------------------
    Tony Zeigler
    Senior Consultant
    Strategic Solutions NW
    Beaverton OR
    ------------------------------



  • 12.  RE: Item price group

    GOLD CONTRIBUTOR
    Posted Feb 09, 2021 11:25 AM
    Yes, we are seeing eye to eye on this now.  I agree that the less invasive way to handle this next time would to enable automation in the generation of the trade agreement journal.  Fortunately, D365 seems to already have improvements in this area over AX 2012 in the use of the Excel Add-in and Data Management framework to upload lines into a journal.  And these tools are accessible to more than just system admins in D365.  Yeah!

    ------------------------------
    Lynn Kinsman
    Senior Systems Analyst, AX 2012 and D365 F&O
    Kodak Alaris Inc.
    Rochester NY
    ------------------------------



  • 13.  RE: Item price group

    TOP CONTRIBUTOR
    Posted Feb 09, 2021 11:34 AM
    Ya, performance is kinda sucky tho for the excel add-in - I have a client who was using that to setup tax codes and it got pretty bad :(
    So if your having to deal with 10's of thousands of trade agreement journal lines, you'll want to load test the process.

    ------------------------------
    Tony Zeigler
    Senior Consultant
    Strategic Solutions NW
    Beaverton OR
    ------------------------------



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